A Motto I Live By ** controversial **

[FTVGirls_Rob]

'The only sovereign you can allow to rule you is reason'

Faith and feelings are the warm marrow of evil. Unlike reason, faith and feelings provide no boundary to limit any delusion, any whim. They are a virulent poison, giving the numbing illusion of moral sanction to every depravity ever hatched.

Faith and feelings are the darkness to reason's light.

Reason is the very substance of truth itself.

Misery, iniquity, and utter destruction lurk in the shadows outside its full light, where half-truths snare the faithful disciples, the deeply feeling believers, the selfless followers.
---------------------------

Anyways read between the lines of what I'm trying to imply.

[ugo]

I think, friend Rob, that the two things (the faith and the feelings) they are the events of our human life. And of our history of the man. And with these two things (what to my opinion it is the source of the true love) it is born the good sense of the reason of which want to discuss on every thing. And can be judged what is also wrong him around two things (the faith and the feelings).

[geolarson2]

Very interesting (recommendation, read that as Artie Johnson in Laugh-In).

I see what both Rob & Ugo both write and see validity in both. It takes guts to lay things out in those basic terms. What a way to take a stand, huh? Einstein once said, "Imagination is more important than knowledge." Pascal said, "The heart has its reasons which reason does not know." I know that for myself, I'm an emotional person. The guards that we tend to build up to protect ourselves from psychological injury in my case came crashing down under their own weight a few years ago. And out of the rubble, I found that unlike others in my position, I am less reliant on religion as a safeguard. To put it bluntly, I have no idea what God is, all I know is that at some level we are all bound together; we are all made of the same sub-atomic stardust.

That final collapse of ego was preceded by a number of years of searching for answers that I know I'll never get the answers to. I was raised Methodist which was good in a way because I still like John Wesley's rule ("do all the good you can, by all the means you can, in all the ways you can, in all the places you can, at all the times you can, to all the people you can, as long as ever you can") even if the trappings of organized religion now seem hollow to me, less comforting, more imposing of a single idea rather than freedom of choice, free will or whatever you wish to call it. I broke from Christianity, but still haven't "bothered" to tell most of my family just how far I've "strayed." Maybe, I wonder, if that's what draws me to folks like Danielle, Lia and every other person who chooses a different path than that their parents or "polite society" expect? I find it more welcoming here, and more comforting here, and more open here than I do in my own family most of the time. Here I feel okay to be who I am, there I feel the need to close myself off and keep my mouth shut.

A decade ago, when I first finished grad school I was at a cross-roads--did I want to take the LSATs and head off to law school to study international law? I'd laid the groundwork with courses in comparative political systems and civil liberties & the constitution, and a section of my thesis had been a comparative study of European constitutions. Or I could take my GRE scores and apply to Berkeley Theological Union, but there was a problem there. Of the associated schools, you had to apply to one, the one that formed the heart of your own theological beliefs--Catholic, Presbyterian, Methodist, Lutheran, Jewish or Buddhist (I think those were the options). Well by then I'd already broken with organized Christianity and had serious questions about the foundations & provenance of the religion as a whole (I mean, who celebrates the birth or crucifixion of Jesus, a Hebrew, with ham?). I was a lot closer to Buddhism by then, but I'm not Buddhist. There's this story that describes the three Eastern philosophies succinctly, I think. Its called The Vinegar Tasters. Three wise old men gather around one vat of vinegar, each taking a sip. One man shows a bitter look on his face, the second a sour look, while the third smiles. The first man is often interpreted as a representative of Buddhism because the Buddhists view the world as bitter, filled with trials and tribulations that prevent man from attaining Nirvana, a state of "no wind" where all the wants and desires fall away allowing the individual to rise out of the muckety-muck and understand from a position outside of all that swirling dust called Brahman. The second man represents the teachings of Confucius. In this world-view, the universe is highly structured and organized, with a place for everything and everything in its place. The problem is, to the Confucian, is that a lot of things are out of place which makes the world sour. The antidote, of course, is to put things right which means adhering to structure and ritual. The third man represents the teachings of Lao Tzu, the founder of Taoism. Tao means the way, or the middle way. In this philosophy, which I tend to follow myself, there is neither good or bad, per se; what there is, is the inner structure of each thing. Discord comes from denying that nature or trying to force it into something else. The old fellow smiling as he drank his vinegar was smiling, in one interpretation, because, quite simply, he was drinking vinegar, not wine, so what else was he supposed to be tasting? By accepting things and people for who they are, by not trying to impose your will on me, or mine on you, but rather accepting our differences as a "good thing" and not a "bad thing" we aid each other and ourselves in becoming better people.

Take it or leave it, its your choice. Rob is who he is, and that's a good thing. Ugo is who he is, and that's a good thing. Danielle is who she is, and that's a good thing. Standing in their way from pursuing their dreams, creating themselves out of the raw materials or raw talents they possess, that's where problems arise. That seems reasonable to me. I "sometimes" react emotionally to something, usually what I see as a denial of someone's basic right to be who they are and what they want to be. Frequently, after a good night's sleep, taking a step back and looking at a situation a second time, I see things in a more rational light (I wonder what I'll make of this tomorrow!). Where I am at now I'm left with one thing, based on something Jack London once said. London, speaking of what it takes to be a writer, said that a writer can only write about what he knows. I have only my perspective to see from, and I have only my experiences and relationships that I can use to relate to everyone and everything else. So, with that in mind, the only thing I can do is do my best (sometimes pitiful best) to treat each of you as I would want my nearest and dearest to be treated. As much as I want you to all figure out where your heart lies, or take that path that leads you to real freedom, I want the same for my closest friends and family. (I hope that didn't come off as too drippy to you, because it was raining treacle here!)

When I was a kid, I read a lot more than I do now. One of those books that first got me thinking about the nature of nature differently was called The Tao of Physics. That was also my introduction to Taoist ideas (duh), but it was still years later that I started catching on (its been over a quarter century now, and I'm still getting little cracks of light through the darkness from that book). When I was in high school and picking which schools to apply to for college, I was torn between my two selves--I applied to USMA, and I applied to UCSC. When I was a kid, I wanted to fly Army dust-off missions ("medivac"), then go to the CIA and work as an analyst. At the same time, I went to Grateful Dead concerts and let my hair grow long and wanted to study animal behaviour, then human behaviour, and wound up just fascinated with structures from particle physics to cosmology and everything in between, including, for that matter, metaphysics. Then again, I always loved puzzles, especially jigsaws & mazes. Neither persona fits me well anymore. Marie may have been a little bit country, and Donny may have been a little bit rock-n-roll, and I've been a little to the left, and a little to the right ("but its the pelvic thrust that really drives you insane," or so I've heard--thanks Dr. Frank-n-furter!). Now that I've lost my stream of consciousness and have left myself with even more questions to ponder, I suppose I should just wind this up with one more thought expressed by someone with a much sounder mind than I, Rousseau, who said, "Nature never deceives us; it is always we who deceive ourselves." I've grown a little more comfortable with who I am (I write with a wry smile and shrug of my shoulders), and I can only hope that each and every one of you are comfortable with yourselves. You each have my respect for who you are. Cheers all!

[danielle_ftv]

Rob you are a dork....oh yeah btw people that quote is from "The Sword of Truth" series by Terry Goodkind.

[ugo]

Take it or leave it, its your choice. Rob is who he is, and that's a good thing. Ugo is who he is, and that's a good thing. Danielle is who she is, and that's a good thing. Standing in their way from pursuing their dreams, creating themselves out of the raw materials or raw talents they possess, that's where problems arise. That seems reasonable to me. I "sometimes" react emotionally to something, usually what I see as a denial of someone's basic right to be who they are and what they want to be. Frequently, after a good night's sleep, taking a step back and looking at a situation a second time, I see things in a more rational light (I wonder what I'll make of this tomorrow!). Where I am at now I'm left with one thing, based on something Jack London once said. London, speaking of what it takes to be a writer, said that a writer can only write about what he knows. I have only my perspective to see from, and I have only my experiences and relationships that I can use to relate to everyone and everything else. So, with that in mind, the only thing I can do is do my best (sometimes pitiful best) to treat each of you as I would want my nearest and dearest to be treated. As much as I want you to all figure out where your heart lies, or take that path that leads you to real freedom, I want the same for my closest friends and family. (I hope that didn't come off as too drippy to you, because it was raining treacle here!)

I agree GeoLarson of that what you have told one very interesting way of yours and full of cultural facts and meanings between the religion and our daily life.
I don't love to make a quantity of complexes of the stuff of culture to speak and to explain, because it is necessary to have a whole library, and to make a debate of so many and so many reasons (note the word controversial).
But the most beautiful thing of that that we owe to understand and to speak is only the word "love."
And of whatever aspect of as us well want to live well and to our daily way for what we have to reach our purposes of the good sense to live (to always have love and respect. And they are not always only Faith and feelings, but are the necessary source of our life. Otherwise the world would be only violence.).
For what think and I reasons from my brain and from my heart. Because I cannot make only part for what the man says that life is this way. Easy. Fun. Possession women. But we have to understand ours true good reasons to live. And to know how to compare with the other reasons to discuss on what we live, and we want to live.
Otherwise, the world (already sick of so many dramatic facts) it would be indeed a hell without end. And for those people weaker (the women, the children, the elderly ones, the sick, the invalid). And I would also say respect for the animals and the nature.

[geolarson2]

Originally Posted by ugo

I agree GeoLarson of that what you have told one very interesting way of yours and full of cultural facts and meanings between the religion and our daily life.
I don't love to make a quantity of complexes of the stuff of culture to speak and to explain, because it is necessary to have a whole library, and to make a debate of so many and so many reasons (note the word controversial).
But the most beautiful thing of that that we owe to understand and to speak is only the word "love."
And of whatever aspect of as us well want to live well and to our daily way for what we have to reach our purposes of the good sense to live (to always have love and respect. And they are not always only Faith and feelings, but are the necessary source of our life. Otherwise the world would be only violence.).
For what think and I reasons from my brain and from my heart. Because I cannot make only part for what the man says that life is this way. Easy. Fun. Possession women. But we have to understand ours true good reasons to live. And to know how to compare with the other reasons to discuss on what we live, and we want to live.
Otherwise, the world (already sick of so many dramatic facts) it would be indeed a hell without end. And for those people weaker (the women, the children, the elderly ones, the sick, the invalid). And I would also say respect for the animals and the nature.

I agree, Ugo. Part of my belief system (well, that's what I'll call it for now ) is to let things, people or otherwise, be themselves. This past summer, there were a lot of fires over the Sierra Nevada from where I live. For days and days and days, the air here was choked with smoke. And why were the fires so big? Because nature wasn't allowed to take care of itself. For decades, people managed the forests around Yosemite and Tahoe, letting the underbrush to grow heavy with pine needles, &c. Lightning struck, set the dry brush on fire and started a blaze that took a long time to control. Had people not prevented nature to run its course, the fires might not have been so large, because quite simply there would have been less fuel for them. Similarly, our beautiful Giant Sequoia depend on fires to turn that dry brush into ash to ferti9lize the ground, depend on the heat to prepare the cones for germination--without that heat, the seeds are duds, and the sequoia fade into what-once-was.

And I do take your point with regard to faith and emotion. I am not sure what faith I have left. I have lost a lot in my life, and am direly afraid of losing more. I am always in pain, physically and spiritually, and the traditional, orthodox religion of my childhood failed to give me hope. Instead, I found a new way to look at life that does, I suppose, give me some faith which is driven in part by the reason Rob spoke of, and partially by the emotion you spoke of. I tend to borrow what feel like are the better parts of various belief systems, philosophies or religions, and discard what feels wrong. I'm not sure how much of that is a rational, intellectual response, and how much is my own gut instinct and emotion, but I appreciate both. Likewise, I appreciate both your perspective, as well as Rob's. In a way, I guess, what I'm looking for is a middle way between your two perspectives that fits me. I can relate to some of what Rob said, and I can relate to some of what you said, and I like that. In all honesty, there is a part of me that wants to do what Rob does, and then there is a part of me that wants to shave my hair off, don an orange robe and enter a monastery, or perhaps go even further and just walk away from all these trappings I'm surrounded with and really discover what freedom is. Kris Kristofferson once wrote, "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose." I'd like to know what that true freedom is. Here is America everything is "Freedom this," and "freedom that," but so much of it is actually formed around limiting freedom. I want to know what freedom really is, what equality really is, and what brotherhood really is (Liberte, Egalite et Fraternite). I want to know what Rob feels when he's working behind his cameras, I want to know what Danielle or Lia are feeling when they're in front of his cameras, I want to know what you feel when you so diligently work to translate English into Italian, and then translate your thoughts into something I, or Rob, or Danielle, can read. Life is just way, way too short to understand or feel everything, but this is the place where we get to experiment and learn. Cheers, my friend!

[ugo]

I am deeply agree GeoLarson of your good reason explained according to your good nature of reasoning of your heart and brain, and in front of the life that we live.
Also I would like to know facts and misdeeds of their life that live with what they do and they work, and they also have their private lives of every day, as of Rob, Danielle, Lia, would have been beautiful also that of Alison (I believe that she is very intelligent), and others.
There is a symbolic aspect of the our life: the normal ones that they live in the daily silence and the famous ones of what is to see and to feel (web, TV, Cinema, radio, sports, etc. ). And the thing most important it is that we want to know what they do and they say from those some known popularity (more or less famous). As a form of curiosity to be compared with the famous.
Liberty there is in our sick world, but the man is jealous. Because wants to have the power to his way of understanding and to reason. With or without the true love. It depends.

[geolarson2]

Originally Posted by ugo

I am deeply agree GeoLarson of your good reason explained according to your good nature of reasoning of your heart and brain, and in front of the life that we live.
Also I would like to know facts and misdeeds of their life that live with what they do and they work, and they also have their private lives of every day, as of Rob, Danielle, Lia, would have been beautiful also that of Alison (I believe that she is very intelligent), and others.
There is a symbolic aspect of the our life: the normal ones that they live in the daily silence and the famous ones of what is to see and to feel (web, TV, Cinema, radio, sports, etc. ). And the thing most important it is that we want to know what they do and they say from those some known popularity (more or less famous). As a form of curiosity to be compared with the famous.
Liberty there is in our sick world, but the man is jealous. Because wants to have the power to his way of understanding and to reason. With or without the true love. It depends.

Cheers, Ugo, Rob and yes, you too, Danielle. I have no idea if Rob is a dork, but every guy out there (barring some freak accident) does have a dork

I spend a lot of time philosophizing. I'm not very disciplined at it (sorry Dr. Alderman, wherever you are; I shoulda listened--showed up--more in class). I have a lot of time on my hands, and a lot of things to work on. I spend a lot of time reflecting on my life, and a lot of time looking to my nieces' futures. The one thing that I guess describes me best is a desire to find balance. I don't belong to organized religion, I don't belong to a political party. I've seen wealthy people who are miserable, and poor people who are happy. I've also seen miserable poor people and happy wealthy people, so what does that tell ya? Probably not much more than people see things differently. It depends on your priorities, I guess, and those are set in part by your basic needs (food, shelter, clothing, love) and then the added luxuries. For me, FTV is a luxury and one which I finally decided to give myself. I don't know what I'll do next year, but chances are I'll give something back to others who are less fortunate than I. There's a balance between what I need, what I want and what someone else needs or wants that has to be accounted for. I can't help but believe that somehow Newton's laws apply to personal relationships. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. I have a friend at MySpace, an adult film director & performer, who had until recently a quote from Bertrand Russell that went something like "all that we can know comes from reason." It was something like that, akin to Rob's thesis. I do agree with that in many respects. I do not know what God is, or might be, but I do not hold the orthodox view of God as a single sentient being; rather, once upon a time in one of my classes or in something I read, there was something about a sub-atomic harmony that runs through every single thing in the universe. Its there in me, in you, in this keyboard, in your dinner plate ...everywhere, everything, all the time ...humming at the same rate. Is that deep down thing, whatever it is, whatever causes it (I think it was the residue of the Big Bang) is that "God". Its in all of us, permeates our planet, sun, galaxy and so on--is there something way down deep that might actually tie us together? Is that the "God particle" the Hadron collector is supposed to look for, the thing that gives us mass and makes us real? I don't know. That there apparently is something there, though, is what matters to me. I think, whatever that is, is what gives law and structure to physical nature, and I suspect that its something that we unwittingly bring to our interpersonal relationships, maybe. Truth is, I don't know. I don't know a lot of things. I'll doubt that I'll ever know the answers to those core questions that drive people nuts. I, myself, gave up my driver's license years back, so I'm not driving anyone anywhere . One thing I do find funny, smart, astonishing and wicked cool is that here we are, at this site dedicated to a lovely gentlewoman talking about this sort of thing in the first place. Yep, the universe is a bit off-kilter. I knew it!

[The Deuce]

Rob, in order for this to be controversial it first has to make sense. You Magic the Gathering guys are different breed thats for sure.

[ugo]

Yes, GeoLarson.

What is life? Is a "Treasure!" It is to us to know how to defend and to teach with the others. Only so, the "Treasure" is safe.
Because we look for God? Because Him (God) it looks for us. And we have to reason on ours "Treasure" to valorize our good way of living.
Is for this the reason and the controversial it exists. And the "Treasure" of our life is broadly divulged to so many happened facts. And we have to mend this "open Treasure ".

I apologize if I bother to others while I am explaining my philosophy of life.

"Is Rob a Dork?" (joking)
I would like to know his emotions and conditions to think and to debate. If it has the patience.

[ask]

This thread is already turned in to a philosophical thread

[ugo]

Welcome Ask.

It seems that I am Newton,....

[Ryan]

Is the new upcoming TV series "Legend of the Seeker" loosely based on The Sword of Truth, or...

Legend of the Seeker is a live-action weekly television series based on The Sword of Truth novels by Terry Goodkind. Distributed in domestic syndication by Disney-ABC Domestic Television, ABC Studios is producing the series, which is its first foray into broadcast syndication,[1] with Sam Raimi, Robert Tapert, Joshua Donen, Ned Nalle and Kenneth Biller serving as executive producers. It is scheduled to premiere on November 1, 2008.[1]

The series, which is being filmed in New Zealand, follows the epic journey of a young woods guide named Richard Cypher (played by Craig Horner) and a mysterious woman named Kahlan Amnell (played by Bridget Regan) to stop a vengeful wizard from unleashing an ancient and terrifying power.

http://www.legendoftheseeker.com/

I haven't yet gotten into the novels. I may check out the TV series, though - it's from the producers of "Hercules: The Legendary Journeys" and "Xena: Warrior Princess" and I was really into both of those shows.

____________________________
www.online-erotica.blogspot.com

[nexxus]

Damn, I always lived by the idea of being as much of an antagonist as I could possibly be.

Even my wife say's I'm a prick

[the Dutch mountains]

The problem with the motto in the first post is the fact that reason is based on facts and truths. And facts are only true until proven otherwise. It once was the truth that the earth was flat, and that the sun circled around the Earth... Now we know otherwise. So the problem with living by reason alone is the fact that your reasons can be based on a false assumption.

Our family motto is quite simple: "Don't be an ***."

[TheDoctor]

Originally Posted by the Dutch mountains

So the problem with living by reason alone is the fact that your reasons can be based on a false assumption.

Our family motto is quite simple: "Don't be an ***."

Simple, crystal-clear and to the point, Dutch.

OK. I have to disagree with the Master here. Faith is pretty much what impulses nearly all of us to live; feelings make us HUMAN. Only an emotionless a$$ like Descartes could have come up with that... but there is a very long and sad history behind that. FYI, Rene Descartes was unemotional for dear life: born a sickly child, he was never able to do any heavy physical work and everytime he got any excited he would suffer from breath shortness and palpitations, so he was kind of forced to bury his emotions under his intellect (anybody whispered "Vulcan"?), hence his babble about "reason above all else". Wikipedia explains RD's life better anyway.

We humans are capable of reason, but seldom use it, lest live by it.

About how faith and feelings can go damaging in any way, here is the actual thing:

Faith is fine, but religion has used it to brainwash brothers into destroying each other more times than I can count through recorded history. Thus, religion is the greatest killer in history. Period.

About feelings, they are like "the bridge between nice and nasty"; they make us want, try and be good people or bad people. Problem is, while good people live their lives nicely and peacefully, bad people do a lot of damage, often irrepairable. So, if we "cut off" feelings, crime might disappear, but the world would become a boring hell. It should be a better course of action to exterminate all bad people (easier than "canceling" feelings anyway), but that sounds like Dexter Morgan. No thanks.

Conclusion: Faith is fine as long as there is no religion involved. Feelings are fine as long as they do not think for us, wether good or bad. Reason? Should do ALL of our thinking. Fortunately, it does not.

Dr. Carter

[the Dutch mountains]

Religion itself is not dangerous at all. People taking advantage of a religion to get more followers for his/her personal vendetta's, THAT is dangerous.

[TheDoctor]

Originally Posted by the Dutch mountains

Religion itself is not dangerous at all. People taking advantage of a religion to get more followers for his/her personal vendetta's, THAT is dangerous.

So, what have religious leaders been doing for the latest some thousand years? Think Caliphs, Emirs, Popes, Crusades, 30 Year War, Jihad, and soooo on...

Dr. Who

[WhyYou]

There are two topics that are not allowed here, politics and religion. Both almost always cause heated discussions and have a tendency to upset the flow of this message board. If you want to discuss either of these 2 topics then take it to either private messages or, if you believe other members might want to join in on the conversation, start a Social Group for your chosen topic.

[TheDoctor]

Originally Posted by WhyYou

There are two topics that are not allowed here, politics and religion. Both almost always cause heated discussions and have a tendency to upset the flow of this message board. If you want to discuss either of these 2 topics then take it to either private messages or, if you believe other members might want to join in on the conversation, start a Social Group for your chosen topic.

C'mon man, just when this thread was getting actually "controversial"...

Duh

Dr. Smith

OK, OK. No more posts about politics/religion.

[Leland]

Originally Posted by danielle_ftv

Rob you are a dork....oh yeah btw people that quote is from "The Sword of Truth" series by Terry Goodkind.

There seems to be a point in life where being a dork no longer matters and trying to understand the truth of life is something which seems to really matter.

[TheDoctor]

Originally Posted by FTVGirls_Rob

'The only sovereign you can allow to rule you is reason'

[Some bunch of typing]

Who does this guy think he is? Master Surak?

[Dutch-best]

My quote is: ''Religion is the worst invention since hatred towards each other.
Allways respect someone else whether u like each other or not.